Liza looks like a really lovely person in that photo... I start feeling very sorry for people like her - decent, well-meaning folks who gradually come to realise how brutally deceived they have been...
Great work Steve. We need much more debate. I suggest all medics read the book 'turtles all the way down'' to see the level of deception at play with pharma ''science'' vs vaccines. It's shocking ! You are being massively deceived and putting people's lives at risk with your blinkered 'safe and effective' mantra. It's easier that way right ? Wake up !!
What I found frustrating is she kept asserting that sars-cov2-19 is more dangerous than the vaccine, which MIGHT be true - the problem is that the vaccines are not effective - it doesn't even matter if they are safe.
There's been no efficacy demonstrated of the vaccines. It doesn't prevent infection, it doesn't prevent transmission.
No, it's POSSIBLE that the reason people who have been heavily vaccines may correspond to people who are more likely to get the vaccine. We don't have a control group - people who feel they are less healthy are more likely to get 2, 3, 4 whatever vaccines. Maybe they are less healthy?
She's just not smart enough to debate anyone informed on the covid vaccine subject. She may be a doctor, but that doesn't mean she's an expert at reading studies or interpretting data. Actually it means she's exactly the opposite of the expert we needed to debate.
"There are more deaths being reported to VAERS because people are aware of it now"
Dunn's argument that the increased number of reports is due to awareness of the VAERS reporting system doesn't hold water. This is the largest mass injection campaign in human history. The technology behind these injections has never been used before, making this the largest ever human experiment of all time. Might this have something to do with it?
As Kirsch brings up, there is no evidence for her assertions, just speculation.
Occam's razor is indeed the most obvious and therefore likely culprit it the cause of this rather than simply "over-reporting".
Dunn's argument that looking at the data and reducing the number of reports to a proportional number that reflects the historic reporting through VAERS is not a great use of time if (as the data likely proves) that we have a dangerous product being used which is causing mortality and injury at a level we seem to be seeing. What all physicians, doctors and medical practitioners should be doing is STOPPING THE EXPERIMENTAL SHOTS NOW. Surely? Isn't the hypocratic oath's opening "first, do no harm"?
Steve Kirsch being very civil and courteous regarding Dunn's unawareness of this substack.
"Just because there's an increase of reporting to the system, doesn't mean there's actual vaccine-induced serious side-effects"
I think I have listened enough to complete the poll now. Hats off to Steve for having this debate, for his patience and politeness. Also for Liza Dunn for participating in the debate too! It is a rare moment to see this debate aired in public.
Hi Mr. Kirsch, My daughter was vaccine injured in 2015. From my experience it was a living hell trying to get help for my daughter. I was the one who first entered my daughters injury into VAERS. Let me tell you that it is no easy task. In order to report you must have the vaccine lot #, date of vaccination and location where the vaccine was received. These various pieces of information cannot be faked! Also, the CDC contacted me and questioned me about my daughters symptoms and doctors visits. Ultimately, the doctor also reported my daughters injury. If I had known that a vaccine could injure my daughter so badly, I would have NEVER told her to get it!! Because of my daughter's previous vaccine injury, we do not trust the CDC. Evidently the ER doctor does not realize that it is NOT EASY to REPORT a vaccine injury!
In your 'Twitter Spaces' discussion with Dr. Liza Dunn, I was surprised you didn't mention the section from an FDA disclosure that reports the deaths in the vaccinated group to be 23.5% higher than in the placebo group. The document, dated November 8, 2021, and entitled "Summary Basis for Regulatory Action," states the following near the top of page 23:
"From Dose 1 through the March 13, 2021 data cutoff date, there were a total of 38 deaths, 21 in the COMIRNATY group and 17 in the placebo group..."
Back to my analysis: Since 21 minus 17 equals 4, and 4 divided by 17 equals 23.5%, it's fascinating how similar that percentage is to the 20% you mentioned from the Schwab paper.
Further, I originally learned of the FDA disclosure via the following site:
Liza did not seem to be listening to Steve's questions and did not understand when he asked hypotheticals about when do you start to question safety signals. She also tried to bulldoze information, overwhelming opposition with speed of delivery and terminology. She had not done her background research and seemed unable to grasp all-cause mortality versus covid incidence in the Pfizer data. Sadly her arguments seemed to have no more substance than 'trust the science' the conflict of interest 'science' the pharmaceutical companies provide.
You’re a God Send. I thank you for all the effort you put into finding answers and how you don’t stop. We should not let this catastrophe of Crimes Against Humanity go silent. This is the most important issue going on in this world and no one should stop because the story is getting old.
You might want to tell Liza Dunn about the Highwire episode #280 which features an extended interview with Maddie de Garay's parents. In it they tell the detailed story of how the trial staff managed to hide her injury, avoid a proper diagnosis (and therefore withholding IVIg when it would have been most helpful early on), and basically violate all protocols of human decency in relating to someone whose child their product injured. Perhaps this will start to break her naive trust in pharma.
UPDATED link to right link.... sorry about that.
You need a Twatter account to listen... thanks but no thanks!
Liza looks like a really lovely person in that photo... I start feeling very sorry for people like her - decent, well-meaning folks who gradually come to realise how brutally deceived they have been...
Great work Steve. We need much more debate. I suggest all medics read the book 'turtles all the way down'' to see the level of deception at play with pharma ''science'' vs vaccines. It's shocking ! You are being massively deceived and putting people's lives at risk with your blinkered 'safe and effective' mantra. It's easier that way right ? Wake up !!
What I found frustrating is she kept asserting that sars-cov2-19 is more dangerous than the vaccine, which MIGHT be true - the problem is that the vaccines are not effective - it doesn't even matter if they are safe.
There's been no efficacy demonstrated of the vaccines. It doesn't prevent infection, it doesn't prevent transmission.
No, it's POSSIBLE that the reason people who have been heavily vaccines may correspond to people who are more likely to get the vaccine. We don't have a control group - people who feel they are less healthy are more likely to get 2, 3, 4 whatever vaccines. Maybe they are less healthy?
She's just not smart enough to debate anyone informed on the covid vaccine subject. She may be a doctor, but that doesn't mean she's an expert at reading studies or interpretting data. Actually it means she's exactly the opposite of the expert we needed to debate.
"There are more deaths being reported to VAERS because people are aware of it now"
Dunn's argument that the increased number of reports is due to awareness of the VAERS reporting system doesn't hold water. This is the largest mass injection campaign in human history. The technology behind these injections has never been used before, making this the largest ever human experiment of all time. Might this have something to do with it?
As Kirsch brings up, there is no evidence for her assertions, just speculation.
Occam's razor is indeed the most obvious and therefore likely culprit it the cause of this rather than simply "over-reporting".
Dunn's argument that looking at the data and reducing the number of reports to a proportional number that reflects the historic reporting through VAERS is not a great use of time if (as the data likely proves) that we have a dangerous product being used which is causing mortality and injury at a level we seem to be seeing. What all physicians, doctors and medical practitioners should be doing is STOPPING THE EXPERIMENTAL SHOTS NOW. Surely? Isn't the hypocratic oath's opening "first, do no harm"?
Steve Kirsch being very civil and courteous regarding Dunn's unawareness of this substack.
"Just because there's an increase of reporting to the system, doesn't mean there's actual vaccine-induced serious side-effects"
I think I have listened enough to complete the poll now. Hats off to Steve for having this debate, for his patience and politeness. Also for Liza Dunn for participating in the debate too! It is a rare moment to see this debate aired in public.
Wow, I'm in shock.
Here is another for Liza Dunn: https://vigilantfox.substack.com/p/criminal-malfeasance-pfizer-knew. Not that she has the courage to come here and check the comments out.
(I don't put Dr. in front of her name because she doesn't deserve it).
Hi Mr. Kirsch, My daughter was vaccine injured in 2015. From my experience it was a living hell trying to get help for my daughter. I was the one who first entered my daughters injury into VAERS. Let me tell you that it is no easy task. In order to report you must have the vaccine lot #, date of vaccination and location where the vaccine was received. These various pieces of information cannot be faked! Also, the CDC contacted me and questioned me about my daughters symptoms and doctors visits. Ultimately, the doctor also reported my daughters injury. If I had known that a vaccine could injure my daughter so badly, I would have NEVER told her to get it!! Because of my daughter's previous vaccine injury, we do not trust the CDC. Evidently the ER doctor does not realize that it is NOT EASY to REPORT a vaccine injury!
Steve,
In your 'Twitter Spaces' discussion with Dr. Liza Dunn, I was surprised you didn't mention the section from an FDA disclosure that reports the deaths in the vaccinated group to be 23.5% higher than in the placebo group. The document, dated November 8, 2021, and entitled "Summary Basis for Regulatory Action," states the following near the top of page 23:
"From Dose 1 through the March 13, 2021 data cutoff date, there were a total of 38 deaths, 21 in the COMIRNATY group and 17 in the placebo group..."
Here's the direct link to FDA document:
https://www.fda.gov/media/151733/download
Back to my analysis: Since 21 minus 17 equals 4, and 4 divided by 17 equals 23.5%, it's fascinating how similar that percentage is to the 20% you mentioned from the Schwab paper.
Further, I originally learned of the FDA disclosure via the following site:
https://www.theburningplatform.com/2021/11/17/more-people-died-in-the-key-clinical-trial-for-pfizers-covid-vaccine-than-the-company-publicly-reported/
Liza did not seem to be listening to Steve's questions and did not understand when he asked hypotheticals about when do you start to question safety signals. She also tried to bulldoze information, overwhelming opposition with speed of delivery and terminology. She had not done her background research and seemed unable to grasp all-cause mortality versus covid incidence in the Pfizer data. Sadly her arguments seemed to have no more substance than 'trust the science' the conflict of interest 'science' the pharmaceutical companies provide.
You’re a God Send. I thank you for all the effort you put into finding answers and how you don’t stop. We should not let this catastrophe of Crimes Against Humanity go silent. This is the most important issue going on in this world and no one should stop because the story is getting old.
You might want to tell Liza Dunn about the Highwire episode #280 which features an extended interview with Maddie de Garay's parents. In it they tell the detailed story of how the trial staff managed to hide her injury, avoid a proper diagnosis (and therefore withholding IVIg when it would have been most helpful early on), and basically violate all protocols of human decency in relating to someone whose child their product injured. Perhaps this will start to break her naive trust in pharma.
https://thehighwire.com/videos/episode-280-rigged/
Steve, I hope you get Liza back on. I am interested if she thinks the Earth is flat, and I expect some very good arguments from her.
Steve, I hope you get Liza back on. I am interested if she thinks the Earth is flat, and I expect some very good arguments from her.